Subject: [Ace] draft-seitz-ace-usecases-00

From: "Hannes Tschofenig" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:13:36 +0100

Hi 
 
I re-read the use case document and I noticed an aspect that I failed to recognize earlier and I was wondering what the expected interoperability requirements are. 
 
Here is the text from Section 2.2.1: 
 
   Jane is the owner of an automated home, that allows her to remotely
   control all electrical devices through a web interface or mobile
   application.  To allow for centralized management of all devices, new
   devices need to be able to communicate with both the web interface
   and the mobile application using a standardized, secure protocol.

   Jane has invited over her acquaintance Jeffrey for dinner, but is
   stuck in traffic and can not arrive in time, while Jeffrey who uses
   the subway arrives punctually.  Jane calls Jeffrey and offers him to
   let him in remotely, so he can make himself comfortable and use
   Jane's home entertainment system.

   Jeffrey downloads an application that lets him communicate with
   Jane's home, and Jane set permissions for Jeffery that let's him open
   the door, and shut down the alarm using that application.  She also
   gives Jeffrey access to lighting and HVAC and limited access to the
   home entertainment system, allowing Jeffrey to all services except
   those that are pay-per-use or those that Jane has marked as private.
 
My question concerns the expected level of interoperability you are trying to accomplish? Would Jeffrey have to download apps for all the different appliances? 
Where is this centralized management server located? Would it be a cloud service or something located in Jane's home? When Jane grants Jeffrey access I am wondering what identifiers have been used for this purpose. 

Ciao
Hannes

PS: Recently, I was sitting in a plane next to a person developing software for a big container management company. He explained me that they are using OCR to scan the container numbers and efforts to deal with RFIDs or other radio technologies have been tried but have not been very convincing (more expensive and less robust). I was wondering who you have been talking to concerning the container scenario in the document.

---

From: Olaf Bergmann <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:27:28 +0100

Hi Hannes,

"Hannes Tschofenig" <[email-masked]> writes:

> PS: Recently, I was sitting in a plane next to a person developing
> software for a big container management company. He explained me that
> they are using OCR to scan the container numbers and efforts to deal
> with RFIDs or other radio technologies have been tried but have not
> been very convincing (more expensive and less robust). I was wondering
> who you have been talking to concerning the container scenario in the
> document.
>

There is a large project on container logistics where Universität Bremen
is involved for several years, see e.g. <http://www.intelligentcontainer.com/>.
The container use-case has been derived from discussions with several
people from that project, including Markus Becker.

Gruesse
Olaf

---

From: Ludwig Seitz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:41:53 +0100

On 02/24/2014 12:13 PM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
> My question concerns the expected level of interoperability you are trying to accomplish?

In general I would expect that the authentication and authorization 
mechanism should work across several manufacturers. For example if we 
have an Authorization Server as in draft-gerdes or draft-selander, the 
interoperability should:

a.) Allow devices from different manufacturers to enforce the access 
control decisions of the same AS (without having to translate them into 
various proprietary formats).

b.) Allow devices from different manufacturers to perform mutual 
authentication.

> Would Jeffrey have to download apps for all the different appliances?

I haven't specified the use cases in that level of detail, but I was 
assuming one comprehensive application to manage all appliances.

> Where is this centralized management server located? Would it be a cloud
> service or something located in Jane's home?

Again the use case does not go to this level of detail. I would say that 
both options could be possible. I don't quite see how would this would 
influence the use case with respect to ACE, could you elaborate?

> When Jane grants Jeffrey
> access I am wondering what identifiers have been used for this purpose.

I would see several options here, but I think they are all out of scope 
for the use case document:

a.) Some key-pair generated on the fly (SPKI-like)
b.) Using the phone company as identity provider e.g. with GBA [1]
c.) Some other identity provider such as OpenID

> PS: Recently, I was sitting in a plane next to a person developing software for a big container management company. He explained me that they are using OCR to scan
the container numbers and efforts to deal with RFIDs or other radio 
technologies have been tried but have not been very convincing (more 
expensive and less robust).
I was wondering who you have been talking to concerning the container 
scenario in the document.

The input for that one came via Steffanie Gerdes from Markus Becker who 
AFAIK is involved in a EU project on logistics.

/Ludwig

[1] http://www.3gpp.org/DynaReport/33220.htm

-- 
Ludwig Seitz, PhD
SICS Swedish ICT AB
Ideon Science Park
Building Beta 2
Scheelevägen 17
SE-223 70 Lund

Phone +46(0)70-349 92 51
http://www.sics.se

---

From: "Hannes Tschofenig" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:56:59 +0100

Hi Ludwig,

thanks for your quick response. Your response clarified your intentions and you indeed have somewhat high interoperability requirements.

In today's environment you cannot even get a lock and a digital key from different vendors to work together let alone.

The app example was therefore not meant to be used in the way how they are used today.

Ciao

Hannes

Gesendet: Montag, 24. Februar 2014 um 12:41 Uhr

Von: "Ludwig Seitz" <[email-masked]>

An: [email-masked]

Betreff: Re: [Ace] draft-seitz-ace-usecases-00

interoperability should:

authentication.

[hannes] In your example, do you assume

/Ludwig

--

Ludwig Seitz, PhD

SICS Swedish ICT AB

Ideon Science Park

Building Beta 2

Scheelevägen 17

SE-223 70 Lund

Phone +46(0)70-349 92 51

http://www.sics.se

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---

From: "Hannes Tschofenig" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:29:42 +0100

Thanks for the pointers, Olaf.

I see that a huge number of papers have been published by the project members. Could you recommend some with relevance to the BOF?

Ciao

Hannes

Gesendet: Montag, 24. Februar 2014 um 12:27 Uhr

Von: "Olaf Bergmann" <[email-masked]>

An: "Hannes Tschofenig" <[email-masked]>

Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>

Hi Hannes,

Gruesse

Olaf

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