Subject: [Asrg] Read this article and then never darken our doors again...

From: Zorya <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:41:55 -0400 (EDT)

This one is for those of you who will respond at every opportunity
about how spammers will just move off-shore as disproof of any hope
for a legal approach to the problem, over and over and over and over,
demanding the criticism be responded to, over and over and over and
over and over, as if it were a coup de grace:

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34438-2004Apr22.html

    Raids Shutter Online Piracy Sites

    U.S. and international law enforcement authorities on Wednesday
    conducted a series of raids against Web site operators suspected
    of distributing more than $50 million worth of pirated music,
    movies and software, a move the U.S. Justice Department described
    as the largest-ever crackdown on online piracy.

    The Justice Department coordinated more than 120 searches in 10
    countries and 27 U.S. states...

I know, you *like* piracy or don't like the RIAA so this isn't to your
liking so um, er, so, uh, doh, or maybe 10 countries isn't enough to
convince you, you're going to hold out for a single raid in 180
countries simultaneously before you'll yield the point because, well,
yielding a point is embarrassing...

But before you come back with that sort of thing please take a deep
breath and consider even for just one second that maybe you're a
naive, confused and ignorant individual who shouldn't be cluttering up
lists like this with your own personal limitations and wasting the
time of others.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | [email-masked]           | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
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From: Philip Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:16:45 -0400

> over and over, as if it were a coup de grace:

Barry,
First, let me state that I agree with the principle of your post. I, too, 
think that rigorous law enforcement of all relevant statutes against 
spammers could have a large effect on the volumes of spam seen on the 
Internet. The best example of this would be the amazing disappearance of 
South Korean-originating messages after they put strong laws into place.

However, there are two qualities of copyright infringement enforcement that 
are not (yet) present when dealing with spam:
1. There are no strong, lobbying corporate interests pushing for stringent 
regulations and harsh action. On the contrary, some of the big lobbyists 
oppose strong anti-spam laws in the U.S.

2. Some of the biggest spamming countries (traditionally, China is cited as 
the best example) have no interest in cooperating in cracking down on their 
'local entrepreneurs'. China is also notably absent from the list of 
countries involved in the action you linked to.
Take a look at BBC's reportage of this event: 
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3651749.stm>. From the bottom of that 
article, the participating nations were

> ... Belgium, the United Kingdom, Denmark, France, Germany, Hungary,
 > Israel, the Netherlands, Singapore and Sweden.

When we can get some of the large American and European ISPs on board to 
lobby for enforcement action, we may yet see news like this about anti-spam 
raids. Specifically, we'd want to see AOL, EarthLink, MSN, Comcast, 
RoadRunner, Wanadoo, & BT. Concerted pressure from that crowd would have a 
*HUGE* impact. Until then, I think ad-hoc filtering and small, directed 
technical measures (I'm thinking LMAP here) will be the order of the day.

Philip Miller

---

From: Barry Shein <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:49:57 -0400

Again, the best being made the enemy of the good.

Notice tho that these countries you mention do participate in systems
such as long-distance telephony and int'l package and mail delivery.

So obviously some sort of pressure can be brought to bear, for
starters, if they won't comply then they may find themselves either
cut-off or severely firewalled.

How well do you think it'd work if, for example, all of China tomorrow
decided to only talk to the rest of the net using DECnet protocols? Or
even protocols of their own invention?

etc.

-- 
        -Barry Shein