Subject: VPN solution

From: "Wenbo Sheng" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:26:29 -0500

HI,

Assuming my customer need to create a VPN, I just want to know which
solution is better - using MPLS-VPN or virtual routers? Which solution
is/will be more popular in creating a VPN?

Thanks in advance,

W.S.

---

From: Juan Diego Otero <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:03:50 +0100

Hi Wenbo,

The method to build VPNs most discussed (and that makes me think

that is the most popular) in this mailing list is

the BGP/MPLS model explained in  draft-rosen-rfc2547bis-02.txt
. Personally I

think this method has a lot of advantages such as scalability, security,
manageability

and use of private addressing. Some of this advantages (specially scalability)
have been

discussed in this mailing list.

Best Regards,

Diego

Wenbo Sheng wrote:

HI,

Assuming my customer need to
create a VPN, I just want to know which solution is better - using MPLS-VPN
or virtual routers? Which solution is/will be more popular in creating
a VPN?

Thanks in advance,

W.S.

--

http://www.geocities.com/diego_otero/

---

From: Rob Jaeger <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:40:13 -0400 (EDT)

Juan/Wenbo,

An alternative to draft-rosen-rfc2547bis is l2vpn as described in
draft-kompella-mpls-l2vpn-01.txt .   One advantage of this method is the
separation of administrative responsibilities.  In MPLS L2VPNs,  the
service provider does not participate in the customer's L3 routing. This
may provide better stability than L3 VPNs.

Rob

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, Juan Diego Otero wrote:

> the BGP/MPLS model explained in  draft-rosen-rfc2547bis-02.txt . Personally I
> think this method has a lot of advantages such as scalability, security, manageability
> and use of private addressing. Some of this advantages (specially scalability) have been 
>       Assuming my customer need to create a VPN, I just want to know which solution is better - using
>       MPLS-VPN or virtual routers? Which solution is/will be more popular in creating a VPN?
> 
>       Thanks in advance,
> 
>       W.S.
> 
> 
> --

---

From: Christian Kuhtz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:15:44 -0400

On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 09:40:13AM -0400, Rob Jaeger wrote:
> separation of administrative responsibilities. 

I think you can argue that last point with great ease either way to say the
least.  YMMV.

>  In MPLS L2VPNs,  the

Based on what?  Why is interaction with the SP equalled with instability? Care
to explain?

Several of the L2 VPN vendors use what essentially amounts to OSPF or some
other kind of *IGP* underneath.  And, of course, that part never does have any
problems or faces any challenges.

-- 
Christian Kuhtz                                     Architecture, BellSouth.net
<[email-masked]> -wk, <[email-masked]> -hm                       Atlanta, GA
                                                    "Speaking for myself only."

---

From: "Alexander G. Paoli" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:02:33 -0700

All,

I would like to add, that as simple as the question is it has merit. Some of
us look to each other and to you for real life examples. I believe that
Wenbo Sheng asked a question that no one has really answered, except to
say.. “Here, go look at this draft.<yada yada>”. Then of course like usual,
somebody’s feelings were hurt and POOF this thread is useless and non
productive.

I, like Wenbo, are curious what you all think about the various VPN
solutions and are interested in you responses. I am currently in the move to
implement a 30 – 40 node worldwide presence using MPLS VPN. I have MIS, IT
and engineers waiting to hear what I decide (as well as some very excited
Vendors needless to say, it’s a 100 Million dollar job). I have read the
drafts and come to some conclusions, however, not ready to directly ask any
of you. Then this thread popped up, I was happy to see it and was interested
in what you all had to say. To my amazement I felt like I was watching a
Linux thread when a MS product is brought up.. (run!!)

SO please, could we attempt to answer this question? I would ask that
everyone write his or her DIRECT experience with the subject; even if it
touches a nerve, just write what you have found or experienced in research,
writing the drafts, implementation and day to day management. Readers like
myself and others will then decide based on the data, which if any MPLS VPN
solution is the one to research and/or implement for our customers and
conclude which solution might be the “…most popular”.

If you feel the nerve to attack someone else’s response (Including myself),
do it off-line. Please!

Thanks for you time and wonderful work.

BTW: The original question (for those of you that lost it) is attached
below.

Alexander G. Paoli

VP Technology
Chief Network Architect
NetConstruct, Inc.
(818) 985.2239

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Wenbo Sheng
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 8:26 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: VPN solution

HI,

---

From: Rob Jaeger <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:45:36 -0400 (EDT)

Christian,

> > An alternative to draft-rosen-rfc2547bis is l2vpn as described in
draft-kompella-mpls-l2vpn-01.txt .
> > In MPLS L2VPNs,  the service provider does not participate in the
customer's L3 routing. This may provide better stability than L3 VPNs.
> Based on what?  Why is interaction with the SP equalled with
instability? Care

Based on the draft, in L2 vpn, a misbehaving CE only affects the
corportate network to which it is attached whereas this CE in an L3VPN
*could* cause route flaps on the PE and perhaps the SP's network.

I expect service providers will use both L2 and L3 VPNs depending on the
customer.  You can *alternatively* use L2 or L3 for a particular customer
but use BOTH within your network.  Scaleability has been argued
passionately from both sides so I'll wait to see what happens in SP's
networks.  I was only trying to offer an alternative VPN strategy in
response to the query.
   
rob

---

From: "Darren Patterson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:14:28 +0800

I would have argued that l2 and l3 vpns would co-exist on any providers
network and be sold and used where appropriate. i dont think these are
mutually exclusive, but rather complimentary...the real arguement is on the
model used for l3 vpn's.

regards

> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Rob
> Jaeger
> Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2000 9:40 PM
> To: Juan Diego Otero
> Cc: Wenbo Sheng; MPLS WG
> Subject: Re: VPN solution
>
>
>
> Juan/Wenbo,
>