Subject: Re: [proto-team] revision of draft-ietf-proto-wgchair-doc-shepherding attached

From: Allison Mankin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:12:51 -0700

Lars,

About the acknowledgements, I just IM'd with Thomas about the
history of the shepherd writeup, which I had some memory about
but not the whole story.  I suggest we add this to the acknowledgements
since we have inherited a lot of language and usage in what we're
publishing:

 The Document Shepherd Write-Up originated in an idea by John Klensin.
 Thomas Narten and Margaret Wasserman implemented it for the entire Internet
 Area, and their template was the basis of the version we use today.

 Allison

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proto-team mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/proto-team

---

From: Allison Mankin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:05:34 -0700

Hi, Lars and Henrik,

I have a different suggestion for you on the discussion you're having.
We do use the term "writeup" for the both the larger document (former
"questionnaire") and the smaller one which goes in the announcement,
and I'd like not to end the latter usage, which goes back a long way,
and which the Secretariat has as an ingrained convention.

Here's my suggestion:

OLD:
   The second part of the task is to prepare the Document Shepherd
   Write-Up that is input to both the ballot for the IESG telechat and
   to the eventual IETF-wide announcement message.  Item number (1.i)
   describes the elements of this write-up.  Please see other protocol
   announcements in the IETF Announce archive for examples of such
   write-ups.

NEW:
   The second part of the task is to prepare the Draft Announcement
   Write-Up that is input to both the ballot for the IESG telechat and
   to the eventual IETF-wide announcement message.  Item number (1.i)
   describes the elements of this announcement write-up.  Some examples of 
   Draft Announcement Write-ups are included in the Appendix, and there
   are many more examples with Subject lines "Protocol Action" and
   "Document Action" in the IETF-announce archive.

[You'll note I made another change - we were asked by several
 people to give a few good examples rather than just point to them.
 I suggest for the Appendix one that Colin Perkins did for the rtp-midi-format
 which has some of everything:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=print_ballot&ballot_id=1931&filename=draft-ietf-avt-rtp-midi-format

And for a non-Transport example:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=print_ballot&ballot_id=1834&filename=draft-ietf-imss-ip-over-fibre-channel

On this topic, there was another comment left unaddressed.  The IESG asked
us if we could test the water for 1.i to say for Draft Anouncement
Write-Ups for all documents, not just for Standards track and BCP.  
It's getting rare for an AD-sponsored document not to have one now.
Was there pushback?  I think we should now say it's the default.  Even
before this the third heading "Protocol Quality" was not always
applicable, but it definitely needs to change to "Document Quality"
in the event of broadening the SHOULD for 1.i.

Some more fixes:

  Under "Document Quality", add to the questions: "If there was a MIB
  Doctor Review, Media type review, or other expert review, what was
  its course (briefly)?  In the case of a media type review, on what
  date was the request posted?"

There's a need to improve the handling of the discussion of 
sensitive information.  Here's my suggestion.  

OLD:
  The Document Shepherd MUST send the Document Shepherd Write-Up to the
   Responsible Area Director and [email-masked] together with
   the request to publish the document.  The Document Shepherd SHOULD
   also send the write-up, minus any discussion of possible appeals, to
   the working group mailing list.

NEW:
   The Document Shepherd MUST send the Document Shepherd Write-Up to the
   Responsible Area Director and [email-masked] together with
   the request to publish the document.  The Document Shepherd SHOULD
   also send the entire Document Shepherd Write-up to the working
   group mailing list.  If there is information which may prove to
   be sensitive, possible appeals or personal information, which the
   Document Shepherd feels should be written up, it should be sent in
   direct email to the Responsible Area Director, because the Document
   Shepherd Write-up will be published openly in the tracker.

I think the document title should be "Document Shepherding From WG Last Call to
Approval"  and the header could be "Shepherding to Approval".  It does not
touch shepherding anything post-approval (changes that come up, interactions
with IANA and RFC Editor).

Allison

P.S. Looking my contributions to this text, I think I've earned a place among
     the authors, which doesn't push us over the limit.  No affiliation
     still.  I need to be removed from the acknowledgements if so.
     And I think we have commenters from ietf and wgchairs and the iesg who
     need to be added to the acknowledgements - Brian, Thomas Narten, Bert
     Wijnen, David Black, Magnus Westerlund, Carl Malamud, just say it's a partial
     list.  I'm sure there are more, but I recall major input from all of these.

P.P.S. The author list looks a little strange not being alphabetized.
       We could use reverse alphabetical since Dave wrote most text,
       But I think alphabetical would be rather ok too.

> 
> On Jun 12, 2006, at 16:16, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> > Since the "write-up" referred to in (1.i) is *not* the Document  
> > Shepherd
> > Write-up, I think it is more misleading to referring to it as 'the  
> > write-up'
> > in a section concerned with the Document Shepherd Write-up.  It is  
> > also
> > not the questionnaire.  If anything, we have "questionnaire" +  
> > "document
> > summary" == "Document Shepherd Write-up".
> 
> Oops - you're right. I think I placed that piece of text somewhere  
> else in my mental map of the document.
> 
> I'll make the change but not email another version just yet - maybe  
> there are other comments?
> 
> Lars
> -- 
> Lars Eggert                                     NEC Network Laboratories
> 
> 
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---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:56:53 +0200

That's right.  This should go in.

	Henrik

---

From: Allison Mankin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:29:32 -0700

Henrik,

Thanks for the (positive) review of my comments and suggestions.

You're right, I should not have stated "David wrote most of
the text" - I'd lost track of the history that this
document fused three different documents, one by you, one
by Aaron, and one by Dave, and that the texts are strongly by
all three.  This is an example of the pitfalls of author
ordering discussions.  Sorry for my mis-statement.

I hope everyone has a great weekend.

Allison