Subject: Re: [proto-team] revision of draft-ietf-proto-wgchair-doc-shepherding attached

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:55:16 +0200

Hi Allison,

on 2006-06-16 22:05 Allison Mankin said the following:
> Hi, Lars and Henrik,
> 
> I have a different suggestion for you on the discussion you're having.
> We do use the term "writeup" for the both the larger document (former
> "questionnaire") and the smaller one which goes in the announcement,
> and I'd like not to end the latter usage, which goes back a long way,
> and which the Secretariat has as an ingrained convention.
> 
> Here's my suggestion:
> 
> OLD:
>    The second part of the task is to prepare the Document Shepherd
>    Write-Up that is input to both the ballot for the IESG telechat and
>    to the eventual IETF-wide announcement message.  Item number (1.i)
>    describes the elements of this write-up.  Please see other protocol
>    announcements in the IETF Announce archive for examples of such
>    write-ups.
> 
> 
> NEW:
>    The second part of the task is to prepare the Draft Announcement
>    Write-Up that is input to both the ballot for the IESG telechat and
>    to the eventual IETF-wide announcement message.  Item number (1.i)
>    describes the elements of this announcement write-up.  Some examples of 
>    Draft Announcement Write-ups are included in the Appendix, and there
>    are many more examples with Subject lines "Protocol Action" and
>    "Document Action" in the IETF-announce archive.

Ok, so we have the Document Shepherd Write-Up and the Draft Announcement
Write-Up.  If we're consistent and explicit about this, it works for me.

> [You'll note I made another change - we were asked by several
>  people to give a few good examples rather than just point to them.

Works for me.

>  I suggest for the Appendix one that Colin Perkins did for the rtp-midi-format
>  which has some of everything:
> 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=print_ballot&ballot_id=1931&filename=draft-ietf-avt-rtp-midi-format
> 
> And for a non-Transport example:
> 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=print_ballot&ballot_id=1834&filename=draft-ietf-imss-ip-over-fibre-channel

These look good.

> On this topic, there was another comment left unaddressed.  The IESG asked
> us if we could test the water for 1.i to say for Draft Anouncement
> Write-Ups for all documents, not just for Standards track and BCP.  
> It's getting rare for an AD-sponsored document not to have one now.
> Was there pushback?  I think we should now say it's the default.

Agreed.  In MIP4 we've mostly done this also for the non-stardards track
documents, too; for quite some time.

>  Even
> before this the third heading "Protocol Quality" was not always
> applicable, but it definitely needs to change to "Document Quality"
> in the event of broadening the SHOULD for 1.i.
> 
> Some more fixes:
> 
>   Under "Document Quality", add to the questions: "If there was a MIB
>   Doctor Review, Media type review, or other expert review, what was
>   its course (briefly)?  In the case of a media type review, on what
>   date was the request posted?"
> 
> There's a need to improve the handling of the discussion of 
> sensitive information.  Here's my suggestion.  
> 
> OLD:
>   The Document Shepherd MUST send the Document Shepherd Write-Up to the
>    Responsible Area Director and [email-masked] together with
>    the request to publish the document.  The Document Shepherd SHOULD
>    also send the write-up, minus any discussion of possible appeals, to
>    the working group mailing list.
> 
> NEW:
>    The Document Shepherd MUST send the Document Shepherd Write-Up to the
>    Responsible Area Director and [email-masked] together with
>    the request to publish the document.  The Document Shepherd SHOULD
>    also send the entire Document Shepherd Write-up to the working
>    group mailing list.  If there is information which may prove to
>    be sensitive, possible appeals or personal information, which the
>    Document Shepherd feels should be written up, it should be sent in
>    direct email to the Responsible Area Director, because the Document
>    Shepherd Write-up will be published openly in the tracker.

Good.

> I think the document title should be "Document Shepherding From WG Last Call to
> Approval"  and the header could be "Shepherding to Approval".  It does not
> touch shepherding anything post-approval (changes that come up, interactions
> with IANA and RFC Editor).

Works for me.

> Allison
> 
> P.S. Looking my contributions to this text, I think I've earned a place among
>      the authors, which doesn't push us over the limit.  No affiliation
>      still.  I need to be removed from the acknowledgements if so.
>      And I think we have commenters from ietf and wgchairs and the iesg who
>      need to be added to the acknowledgements - Brian, Thomas Narten, Bert
>      Wijnen, David Black, Magnus Westerlund, Carl Malamud, just say it's a partial
>      list.  I'm sure there are more, but I recall major input from all of these.

Works for me.

> P.P.S. The author list looks a little strange not being alphabetized.
>        We could use reverse alphabetical since Dave wrote most text,
>        But I think alphabetical would be rather ok too.

Whatever.  I'm not so sure about the statement that David wrote most
text, though; I seem to remember that much of the substance was there
when he took over from me as editor.  No big deal, either way ;-)

Best,

	Henrik

>> 
>> On Jun 12, 2006, at 16:16, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> > Since the "write-up" referred to in (1.i) is *not* the Document  
>> > Shepherd
>> > Write-up, I think it is more misleading to referring to it as 'the  
>> > write-up'
>> > in a section concerned with the Document Shepherd Write-up.  It is  
>> > also
>> > not the questionnaire.  If anything, we have "questionnaire" +  
>> > "document
>> > summary" == "Document Shepherd Write-up".
>> 
>> Oops - you're right. I think I placed that piece of text somewhere  
>> else in my mental map of the document.
>> 
>> I'll make the change but not email another version just yet - maybe  
>> there are other comments?
>> 
>> Lars
>> -- 
>> Lars Eggert                                     NEC Network Laboratories
>> 
>> 
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---

From: Lars Eggert <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:23:02 +0300

Hi,

> when he took over from me as editor.  No big deal, either way ;-)

Allison's suggestions look good to me, too, will make the changes.  
(Also the addition to the ack section mentioned in her other email.)

About the author list - just let me know which order authors should  
be in and I'll reshuffle.

Lars

---

From: Lars Eggert <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:12:51 +0200

> (Also the addition to the ack section mentioned in her other email.)

Attached below, please check.

> be in and I'll reshuffle.

Old order with Allison appended. If anyone feels this needs to be  
permutated, let me know.

Lars